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Kane Miner

Starting the prospective marriage visa process. Any tips welcomed

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Thanks for all the help last year. After the first refusal, and with a lot of help from this forum my girlfriend got her tourist visa on the second attempt. She has just returned from two months in Australia during which time we became engaged. We are about to start the daunting prospective marriage visa and would appreciate any tips from those that have either gone or are going through it. Also my girlfriend has a 7 year old son from a previous relationship, what is the process involved so that he can come to Australia too. Thanks again guys for all the help last year.

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Prospective marriage visa will be pretty easy given she's come to Australia already and that you been a number of times to visit her. Best advice is to start collecting evidence of the relationship and keep it mind as you go forward. ie a photo of us at this party/event etc will be good evidence so take one etc. 

The issue is going to the son, some question first so we can give you a better response.

1. Is the father Thai.

2. Was she married legally to the child's father.

3. if yes to above are they divorced and what are the custody arrangements.

4. Is the father involved with the child and to what extent.

5. Will the father give written permission for the child to get a passport

6. Will the father give written permission for the child to emigrate to Australia.

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On 1/4/2019 at 10:49 AM, Nightcall said:

Prospective marriage visa will be pretty easy given she's come to Australia already and that you been a number of times to visit her. Best advice is to start collecting evidence of the relationship and keep it mind as you go forward. ie a photo of us at this party/event etc will be good evidence so take one etc. 

The issue is going to the son, some question first so we can give you a better response.

1. Is the father Thai.

2. Was she married legally to the child's father.

3. if yes to above are they divorced and what are the custody arrangements.

4. Is the father involved with the child and to what extent.

5. Will the father give written permission for the child to get a passport

6. Will the father give written permission for the child to emigrate to Australia.

Thank you Nightcall for your response.

1. The father is Thai.

2. No, they were never legally married. They just had a Buddhist wedding. 

3. As above. Her son lives with my girlfriend and her parents. The father has no contact with the child.

4. The father has no contact with my girlfriend or the child.

5 & 6. My girlfriend has a good relationship with the child's parents who have said that the father will be happy to sign anything that is required. He has a new wife now and they have a kid together. 

Thanks for your help. 

 

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Them not being married legally makes it easier if the father is difficult. 

Under Thai law, as they weren't married (legally) the father is not considered the legal father and the mother has sole custody. Doesn't matter if the father is on the birth certificate or not.

It's a bit of a process to go though to get the required paperwork for the son, but these are the steps you need to go through before applying for the visa.

She will need to go to her local Amphur office with a witness who knows the situation ie her parents and also her Poo Yai Baan (village head) and obtain a 'Por Kor 14' statement. Which is a formal statement covering non-marital status of the child's parents and the custodial circumstances of child. 

It will have to be the Amphur office where the child is registered at in the family book (blue book), everyone will need their family books and ID cards and the Poo Yai Baan their official ID.

There is no or a very small cost for this form, but you may have to pay to grease the wheels of government. 

With a Por Kor 14 she can obtain a passport for the son as long as her ID card states Miss and not Mrs. (she will need to produce the Por Kor 14 also)

The Por Kor 14 basically says she has sole custody of the child is all you technically need under Thai Law,  but Australian immigration likes to go above and beyond to meet their child protection obligations.

You will need to the Por Kor 14 translated to english for the visa application.

So for the visa you will also need to get the father to write a letter that states he consents for the child to live in Australia permanently, this will also need to be witness at the Amphur office along with a copy of his family book and ID card and translated into english (for the visa application)

You will also need a copy of the child's birth certificate + translated into english. (Amphur office can provide a certified copy)

The parents will also need to complete a form 1229 https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/form-listing/forms/1229.pdf consent to grant an Australian visa to a child under the age of 18 years.

And that's about it, sounds easy but expect a long drawn out process.

The biggest issue is getting the father's consent, hopefully they don't see it a money making opportunity as they will have you over a barrel. Consent is not necessary, but it will be the easiest route in terms of money, time and stress etc, so if you have to pay to make it happen it may be worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks again Nightcall for the detailed info. My girlfriend has told me that she already has a Por Kor 14. I am not exactly sure why she has it, but as soon I mentioned it, she said that she has it already. I was initially concerned that the father would want some money to cooperate, but it would appear he has moved on with his life with a new family. Added to this his mother is on good terms with my girlfriend and has perhaps influenced his cooperation. In any event, he has said that he will sign whatever needs to be signed. Just so I am across this, if we have the Por Kor 14 do we also need the Form 1229, or does the Por Kor 14 take care of this. Again, thank you for your time.  

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You will require both the Por Kor 14 and the Form 1229 signed by the father. The Por Kor 14 evidences that the mother has sole legal responsibility of the child under Thai law. However, as Australia is a signatory to the Hague Convention with regards to the rights of children, the Department will also need to be satisfied that the father has consented for his child to migrate to Australia. As Nightcall has said "Australian immigration likes to go above and beyond to meet their child protection obligations".


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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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As far as I am aware the Department still also accepts the attached letter of consent (Thai/English version). Note this has the previous Embassy address in Bangkok. This is of course in addition to the Por Kor 14. This is a useful document as it is written in both Thai and English. 

Consent Letter---THAI PARENTS modify 06012010.pdf


gRP3y0B.jpg

Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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5 hours ago, Kane Miner said:

My girlfriend has told me that she already has a Por Kor 14. I am not exactly sure why she has it

Its unusual that she already has it, as its only used to obtain a passport and immigration purposes. Make of this what you wish.

5 hours ago, Kane Miner said:

Just so I am across this, if we have the Por Kor 14 do we also need the Form 1229, or does the Por Kor 14 take care of this.   

Technically you only need the Por Kor 14, but as I said Australian immigration likes to go above and beyond the requirements.

Your goal is to make life easy for the assessor, tick all the boxes as such. You don't want to have to go to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) to "win", making the decision easy for the decision maker (person who approves your visa) is your goal. Make the decision hard and they will let some else make the decision, like the AAT. Which will cost you time and money (a lot of both)

Short version it's in your best interest to get all three done,  the Por Kor 14, Form 1229 and consent letter. 

 

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Thank you Nightcall I will delve into that one as to why she has the Por Kor 14 already. Her son does not have a passport and has never travelled outside of Thailand. 

I totally understand what you are saying too. Her first tourist visa was refused because we cut corners. I'm not taking any gambles when there is $7K involved. 

 

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On 1/7/2019 at 9:31 PM, Kane Miner said:

Thank you Nightcall I will delve into that one as to why she has the Por Kor 14 already. Her son does not have a passport and has never travelled outside of Thailand. 

I totally understand what you are saying too. Her first tourist visa was refused because we cut corners. I'm not taking any gambles when there is $7K involved. 

 

First up, get her to start her Son's Thai Passport application, as both parents must approve a minor being granted a Passport, the biological father will need to sign the passport application.  If the Fathers signature is not available, theoretically a Por Kor 14 may suffice.

Get the sons passport BEFORE you apply for the Partner/PMV visa, as his passport will aid the identification process.

The Thai, can be, at times, very vague. Although she states that she was never civilly married and it was just a village/buddhist ceremony, I would get this confirmed. There is an archaic law in Thailand that states that a Women Divorcee must wait 310 days before remarrying. I generalise, but some Thai will 'bend' the facts to save embarrassment to either family or their new partner. I am not judging or being discriminatory when I say this, I am just stating fact, which may have bearing on your application.


 

 

Disclaimer:

Makes me sick, in the fact that I must include a disclaimer. All opinions, advice and comments expressed by me are of my own personal opinion, and not that of a Immigration Agent, Lawyer, or related professional. They are given in the spirit intended, as an independant contributor, to a public forum. No implied, or expressed guarantee or undertaking as to accuracy or relevance is given.

 

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On 1/7/2019 at 12:05 PM, AFV said:

You will require both the Por Kor 14 and the Form 1229 signed by the father. The Por Kor 14 evidences that the mother has sole legal responsibility of the child under Thai law. However, as Australia is a signatory to the Hague Convention with regards to the rights of children, the Department will also need to be satisfied that the father has consented for his child to migrate to Australia. As Nightcall has said "Australian immigration likes to go above and beyond to meet their child protection obligations".

High Fives @AFV.

My pet subject....   "Hague Convention with regards to the rights of children"


 

 

Disclaimer:

Makes me sick, in the fact that I must include a disclaimer. All opinions, advice and comments expressed by me are of my own personal opinion, and not that of a Immigration Agent, Lawyer, or related professional. They are given in the spirit intended, as an independant contributor, to a public forum. No implied, or expressed guarantee or undertaking as to accuracy or relevance is given.

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 11:16 PM, AussieDude said:

First up, get her to start her Son's Thai Passport application, as both parents must approve a minor being granted a Passport, the biological father will need to sign the passport application.  If the Fathers signature is not available, theoretically a Por Kor 14 may suffice

Just correcting this information, both parents with parental consent are required to sign the passport application in person at the passport office or the absent parent can sign a statement giving permission at the local Amphur office. 

As the parents weren't legally married, the father doesn't have parental consent to grant under Thai law,  So the mother with an ID card showing 'Miss' and Por Kor 14 can get the passport alone.

Its all explained here in point 1.2  http://www.consular.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/Manual PP/2561-09-05-under20-merge-1_0.pdf but its in Thai.

It's not theoretical, it's fact and clearly stated in the above document.  

 

 

 

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