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On 5/10/2019 at 9:20 PM, Nightcall said:

OK then, you would have trouble meeting the partner visa requirements, based on time spent together. Not impossible but hard. 

Best option is the PMV or spend another 4+ months together in person.

Good news is you meet the requirements of the PMV, bad news is the processing time is 13+ months.

Options.

  1. Spend 4+ months together in the US (or somewhere else) and apply for the partner visa
  2. Partner comes to Australia on an ETA visa, spends 3 months here, registers the relationship  and at the end of the the 3 months applies for a partner visa.
  3. Partner comes to Australia on an ETA visa, spends 3 months here, you get married in that time and at the end of the the 3 months applies for a partner visa.
  4. Apply for the PMV now, partner comes to Australia on a ETA visa spends 3 months, leaves Australia, comes straight back spends another 3 months and then request the the PMV change to a Partner visa after you get married or register the relationship.
  5. Apply for the PMV and wait it out.

Number 1,4,5 and are the safe options.

Number 2 is doable if you have good evidence to prove your relationship is genuine.

Number 3 is the better option (if you wish to get married) and better than number 2, as Australia is still a bit old fashioned and takes marriage more seriously then a de facto. (but you will still need a lot of evidence)

The key points of a partner visa is that the relationship in genuine and ongoing, not the time frame, but you need to be able to prove this to a completely neutral third party who doesn't know you. 

I leave it @Aussie_83 to add or correct anything I have missed. 

  

 

Nightcall you seem to really know your stuff on this topic.

I wonder if I could impose on you (and any other contributors) to ask your opinion of my situation:

Partner is Malaysian, I'm Aus citizen.
By Aug 19 we will have spent 18 weeks together over 6 occasions since January 2018.
She will have visited & left Aus 4 times (tourist visa) including 3 with her 7yo son. 
Initially advised on getting married in Malaysia in 2020 then apply for 820 after her arrival on a tourist visa.
Currently believe we'll apply for 300 before marriage, likely apply after her August visit.
Would really appreciate your opinion on the best approach with two things in mind.
1. Highest chance of approval.
2. Quickest pathway.
Other than inclusion of the son, I don't believe there are any complicating factors.

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On 5/10/2019 at 11:36 AM, Aussie_83 said:

Comprehensive as always.

Just a note on 4, when you convert it to the 309 you may have to do that while offshore. not something I'm sure about but more just to be on the safe side and avoid potential complications.

My reasoning being you cannot convert a offshore visa to a onshore visa.

Doesn't matter if onshore or offshore, as your converted to a 309 or more correctly, converted to being considered for a 309. Of course when the time comes for the decision on the 309 you will need to be offshore.

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 PM, akarosco said:

Would really appreciate your opinion on the best approach with two things in mind.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 PM, akarosco said:

1. Highest chance of approval.

Don't know you haven't given very many details. such as

  1. Age of parties
  2. length of time known
  3. Length of time in a relationship
  4. Reason for only 18 weeks together in person.
  5. How you met
  6. Parenting arrangements with the child (ie were is the father and their involvement)
  7. Living arrangements
  8. Family/friends acceptance/knowledge
  9. Your relationship with your partner, can you meet this requirement?
  10. Employment type and status of both parties
  11. Why are you waiting until 2020 to get married

 

On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 PM, akarosco said:

2. Quickest pathway.ÔĽŅ

Get you partner to come here asap, get married/register relationship and apply for a partner visa straight away. If you meet the requirements of a partner visa.

On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 PM, akarosco said:

Currently believe we'll apply for 300 before marriage, likely apply after her August visit.

I can't see any value in applying for the 300 visa, it would be better to apply for the partner visa (after getting married or registering the relationship) unless you can't meet the relationship requirements, but given the timeframe you have known each other you "could" meet it.

The 300 visa is the safest option, but you will spend a long time apart or traveling back and forward until its granted.

On 5/13/2019 at 8:18 PM, akarosco said:

Other than inclusion of the son, I don't believe there are any complicating factors.

This maybe a complication depending on the status/involvement of the father.

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11 hours ago, Nightcall said:

 

Don't know you haven't given very many details. such as

  1. Age of parties
  2. length of time known
  3. Length of time in a relationship
  4. Reason for only 18 weeks together in person.
  5. How you met
  6. Parenting arrangements with the child (ie were is the father and their involvement)
  7. Living arrangements
  8. Family/friends acceptance/knowledge
  9. Your relationship with your partner, can you meet this requirement?
  10. Employment type and status of both parties
  11. Why are you waiting until 2020 to get married

 

Get you partner to come here asap, get married/register relationship and apply for a partner visa straight away. If you meet the requirements of a partner visa.

I can't see any value in applying for the 300 visa, it would be better to apply for the partner visa (after getting married or registering the relationship) unless you can't meet the relationship requirements, but given the timeframe you have known each other you "could" meet it.

The 300 visa is the safest option, but you will spend a long time apart or traveling back and forward until its granted.

This maybe a complication depending on the status/involvement of the father.

Appreciate your advice Nightcall.

If I can add some detail:

1. 50M, 39F

2. Met online Sep 2017, met in person Dec 2017

3. Exclusive from Jan 2108, engaged April 2018.

4. I 50M live Aus, 39F lives Malaysia. 2 trips to Malaysia, 4 trips to Aus. Total of 18 weeks together by August 2019.

5. Refer (2.)

6. Father has some care of child. Is supportive of migration to Aus.

7. Currently each live separately. Neither of us share accommodation with others.

8. Both families aware & accepting. Likewise friends.

9. This may be a problem as we clearly live apart. We cannot live together as she can only enter Aus on Tourist Visa (ETA), which comes with expectation that she intends to return to Malaysia. She is also unable to come here permanently prior to April 2020.

10. Me: Full time employed in Government. Her: not employed. Studying at Uni and financially supported by her Ex.

11. Able & willing to bring forward marriage.

Quote

I can't see any value in applying for the 300 visa

300 appears to have shorter approval time than 820 from info on Dept of Immigration web pages and from stories shared on forums such as this.

Again, appreciate your input.

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On 5/10/2019 at 9:36 PM, Aussie_83 said:

Comprehensive as always.

Just a note on 4, when you convert it to the 309 you may have to do that while offshore. not something I'm sure about but more just to be on the safe side and avoid potential complications.

My reasoning being you cannot convert a offshore visa to a onshore visa.

There is no requirement to be offshore when converting a 300 to a 309. The relevant regulation is 2.08E of the Migration Regulations.

See also: Marrying before a decision is made on the Prospective Marriage visa application


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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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@akarosco Thank you for the additional information, this information makes it easier to give more accurate information and saves time instead of giving very general information that may or may not apply to you and doesn't waste my time.

It's not just because I am being nosey, all of those points have a bearing on the application. (happy to explain why if you have questions)

Given your partner is from Malaysia and can get an ETA visa and that she can't come to Australia on permanent basis until 04/2020. I would suggest you consider the PMV (300 subclass) visa and do the following.

Apply for the 300 now as you more than meet the requirements.

When she comes over in August, get married (even if only on paper as such), inform immigration of the marriage  and request that you be considered for the partner visa. 

The advantage of doing it this way.

  1. Its low risk for refusal for PMV/partner visa
  2. Its the same price as doing the partner visa, but allows you time to build evidence for the partner visa. You also won't need to pay the $1200 when applying for the partner visa after getting married. (if you inform immigration before the PMV id granted that you are married)
  3. It gets the process underway now instead of August
  4. Your partner will be able to come to Australia on an ETA visa, as much as she wants (complying with the 90 days ETA conditions) until the PMV/partner visa is granted, even direct turnarounds.
The other option is that you wait until April 2020, she comes to Australia (with her child) on an ETA, you get married and you apply for a partner visa. The advantage of this way is she get a bridging visa straight away with working rights. The disadvantage is that you will need to present a very good application, unless you can get the time spent together in person to around 12 months before than.
 
@AFV or @Bridge as visa agents should be able to assist presenting a very good application with this very easily for a fee, or you can do it yourself, if you spend the time and effort and have the capabilities, but it needs a very good knowledge of the system but as you work in Government I am sure you understand their is way they like things presented that takes experience and knowledge to understand.  
 
The other disadvantage is that currently the government is in the process of introducing pre-approval of sponsors and no-body (not even immigration) know what this my look like in the future. But given the long timeframe you have until she can move here and the ETA visa she can get it shouldn't be a major hurdle.
 
One thing to do now is get the father of the child to complete/sign a form 1229 Consent to grant an Australian visa to a child under the age of 18 years https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/form-listing/forms/1229.pdf
 
As if things turn sour with him, its a very very very hard process to get a visa for the child without the fathers permission especially given the circumstances you have outlined already 
 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Nightcall said:

@akarosco Thank you for the additional information, this information makes it easier to give more accurate information and saves time instead of giving very general information that may or may not apply to you and doesn't waste my time.

It's not just because I am being nosey, all of those points have a bearing on the application. (happy to explain why if you have questions)

Given your partner is from Malaysia and can get an ETA visa and that she can't come to Australia on permanent basis until 04/2020. I would suggest you consider the PMV (300 subclass) visa and do the following.

Apply for the 300 now as you more than meet the requirements.

When she comes over in August, get married (even if only on paper as such), inform immigration of the marriage  and request that you be considered for the partner visa. 

The advantage of doing it this way.

  1. Its low risk for refusal for PMV/partner visa
  2. Its the same price as doing the partner visa, but allows you time to build evidence for the partner visa. You also won't need to pay the $1200 when applying for the partner visa after getting married. (if you inform immigration before the PMV id granted that you are married)
  3. It gets the process underway now instead of August
  4. Your partner will be able to come to Australia on an ETA visa, as much as she wants (complying with the 90 days ETA conditions) until the PMV/partner visa is granted, even direct turnarounds.
The other option is that you wait until April 2020, she comes to Australia (with her child) on an ETA, you get married and you apply for a partner visa. The advantage of this way is she get a bridging visa straight away with working rights. The disadvantage is that you will need to present a very good application, unless you can get the time spent together in person to around 12 months before than.
 
@AFV or @Bridge as visa agents should be able to assist presenting a very good application with this very easily for a fee, or you can do it yourself, if you spend the time and effort and have the capabilities, but it needs a very good knowledge of the system but as you work in Government I am sure you understand their is way they like things presented that takes experience and knowledge to understand.  
 
The other disadvantage is that currently the government is in the process of introducing pre-approval of sponsors and no-body (not even immigration) know what this my look like in the future. But given the long timeframe you have until she can move here and the ETA visa she can get it shouldn't be a major hurdle.
 
One thing to do now is get the father of the child to complete/sign a form 1229 Consent to grant an Australian visa to a child under the age of 18 years https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/form-listing/forms/1229.pdf
 
As if things turn sour with him, its a very very very hard process to get a visa for the child without the fathers permission especially given the circumstances you have outlined already 
 

 

 

Thanks Nightcall, I really appreciate you sharing your opinion.

Yes, I do have a number of follow up questions:

Quote

 

Apply for the 300 now as you more than meet the requirements.

When she comes over in August, get married (even if only on paper as such), inform immigration of the marriage  and request that you be considered for the partner visa. 

 

Is it not the case that the PMV is intended for those planning a future marriage? If it is, wouldn't becoming married prior to PMV approval defeat the purpose of this Prospective Marriage Visa?

Also, prior to April 2020, we cannot live together. Doesn't this key aspect fail to meet an essential criteria of an 820 Partner Visa application ("you must live with your spouse or do not live apart on a permanent basis")

Quote

2. Its the same price as doing the partner visa, but allows you time to build evidence for the partner visa

Apart from demonstrating that we would be living together and not apart on a permanent and ongoing basis, what further evidence would you suggest the Dept might be hoping to see?

And no, I don't think you're nosy. You're being very helpful & generous with your time.

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On 5/17/2019 at 6:28 AM, akarosco said:

Is it not the case that the PMV is intended for those planning a future marriage? If it is, wouldn't becoming married prior to PMV approval defeat the purpose of this Prospective Marriage Visa?

It is intended for that, but due to the delays in processing its almost becoming a bit of a joke. If you look at the current time frames, it's around 14 months. So  according to the PMV you have 9 months to get married after being granted, but processing takes 14 months plus.

Many years ago the PMV was processed in about 6 months or less.

Getting married doesn't defeat the process, it simply moves you into consideration for the partner visa.

On 5/17/2019 at 6:28 AM, akarosco said:

Also, prior to April 2020, we cannot live together. Doesn't this key aspect fail to meet an essential criteria of an 820 Partner Visa application ("you must live with your spouse or do not live apart on a permanent basis")

 Not at all, the requirement is you do not live apart on permanent basis, given I assume you will live together from April 2020 it's only a temporary basis. 

People often get caught up on the time together for a partner visa, if married or in a registered de facto relationship this doesn't in theory apply. What applies is that the relationship is genuine and ongoing. 

On 5/17/2019 at 6:28 AM, akarosco said:

what further evidence would you suggest the Dept might be hoping to see?

Basically that you're in a genuine and ongoing relationship with the person. Think of it this way, how would you prove this to someone who knows nothing about you?

Immigration gives you very good guidance on this such as

  • a statement about your relationship that describes: how, when and where you first met,¬†how the relationship developed,¬†when you became engaged or married, if applicable
  • joint activities
  • periods of separation (reasons)
  • significant events in the relationship
  • your future plans together.
  • documents that show you and your partner share financial responsibilities, for example:¬†mortgage or lease documents showing joint ownership or rental of property,¬†loan documents of major assets such as homes, cars or major appliances in both names,¬†joint bank accounts,¬†household bills in both names
  • documents that show that you and your partner share household responsibilities, for example:¬†a statement about the way housework is distributed,household bills in both names,¬†mail or emails addressed to both of you
  • joint responsibility for children
  • your living arrangements
  • documents that show your relationship is known by others, for example:¬†joint invitations, going out together, friends and acquaintances in common,¬†proof that you and your partner have declared your relationship to government bodies, commercial or public institutions
  • proof of joint sporting, cultural or social activities
  • proof of joint travel.
  • documents to show you are committed to each other your long term relationship, for example:¬†knowledge of each other‚Äôs personal circumstances such as background and family situation. You could tell us this at an interview.
  • documents that show you have combined your personal matters
  • the terms of your wills
  • letters and phone bills that show you have been in contact when apart.

Supply as much evidence to address these points as you can and if you can't statements to explain why, hence the time between applying for the PMV and getting married/registering the relationship gives you time to gather this evidence. 

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Thanks guys, you have answered almost every question I had.

How must time does it require for us to be in contact or time spent together? Is there a known minimum time for contact person to person or through video. Holidays together show pics, flights and accommodation but this is not always an option in long distance relationships.

We have had little video time with relatives together so there has only been a one sided conversation for assistance with the 888 forms.

Any advice would be appreciated to get these right up front, guessing future joint holidays will count while waiting for the process to take it's path.

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On 5/10/2019 at 8:53 PM, Aussie_83 said:

My taste has gone to the Japanese whisky when I treat myself, otherwise I stick to Glen Moray.

Rings the bell.....Sang Som for everyone !


 

 

Disclaimer:

Makes me sick, in the fact that I must include a disclaimer. All opinions, advice and comments expressed by me are of my own personal opinion, and not that of a Immigration Agent, Lawyer, or related professional. They are given in the spirit intended, as an independant contributor, to a public forum. No implied, or expressed guarantee or undertaking as to accuracy or relevance is given.

 

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