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Can my child travel to Australia without an Australian passport?

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Have a massive dilemma, my wife is Thai and has a 12 month multiple entry visitor visa which ends 20 June (last day to enter).

Our son has dual Thai and Australian citizenship, but only a Thai passport. He has born in Thailand in December last year. He has got citizenship by descent and we have the original certificate.

The problem is that we want to travel to Australia and apply for the partner visa there before her visitor visa expires in a few weeks. We have been told that our son's passport, yet to be applied will take several weeks, and not before her visitor visa expires.

The IMMI website does not have any information that I can see.

Is it possible for our son to depart Australia on his Thai passport and arrive using his citizenship certificate. 

Alternatively should we simply just apply for a visitor visa for him. 

 

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1 minute ago, dennis said:

Have a massive dilemma, my wife is Thai and has a 12 month multiple entry visitor visa which ends 20 June (last day to enter).

Our son has dual Thai and Australian citizenship, but only a Thai passport. He has born in Thailand in December last year. He has got citizenship by descent and we have the original certificate.

The problem is that we want to travel to Australia and apply for the partner visa there before her visitor visa expires in a few weeks. We have been told that our son's passport, yet to be applied will take several weeks, and not before her visitor visa expires.

The IMMI website does not have any information that I can see.

Is it possible for our son to depart Australia on his Thai passport and arrive using his citizenship certificate. 

Alternatively should we simply just apply for a visitor visa for him. 

 

An Australian citizen cannot be granted an Australian visa.

There would be no issue with an Australian citizen entering Australia without a passport. It wouldn't be as simple as walking through immigration, but a citizen does have a right to enter Australia.

The issue will be departing Thailand. I think you will have significant issue with the airlines. 

I am sure @Nightcall @Aussie_83 and @AussieDude will have much to say on this topic. 


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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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15 hours ago, AFV said:

An Australian citizen cannot be granted an Australian visa.

There would be no issue with an Australian citizen entering Australia without a passport. It wouldn't be as simple as walking through immigration, but a citizen does have a right to enter Australia.

The issue will be departing Thailand. I think you will have significant issue with the airlines. 

I am sure @Nightcall @Aussie_83 and @AussieDude will have much to say on this topic. 

Have you ever noticed when departing Thailand for Australia the Dept of IMMI officers standing at the boarding gate that scrutinise everyones passport to make sure that they have a valid visa. They even run their eyes over Australian passports as well.

I think our member will have a big problem leaving Thailand without an Australian passport for his child, and that is because upon presentation of the child's Thai passport at the airline check-in they will want to see evidence of an Australian visa (which AFV has rightly stated cannot be granted to an Australian citizen). I don't think showing them the original citizenship certificate is going to achieve anything at all.

Perhaps calling the relevant airline to see what their policy is. However my strongest advice would be to apply for an Australian passport for your child.

 


 

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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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19 hours ago, AFV said:

An Australian citizen cannot be granted an Australian visa.

There would be no issue with an Australian citizen entering Australia without a passport. It wouldn't be as simple as walking through immigration, but a citizen does have a right to enter Australia.

The issue will be departing Thailand. I think you will have significant issue with the airlines. 

I am sure @Nightcall @Aussie_83 and @AussieDude will have much to say on this topic. 

As AFV says you won't have issues entering Australia at Australian immigration, but it will take longer than normal. If you have the citizenship certificate, child's birth certificate (translated into english) and the fathers birth certificate, should be pretty easy (assuming they all match up as such) and only take 10-15 minutes extra.

See this thread for further info, and @AussieDude will hopefully be posting the case law soon :)

 

The issue will be the airline and allowing you to board as they (the airline) at check in will run you via advance passenger processing (APP) which your child won't pass. They can call and get approval, but best to arrange this before hand with them, not just fronting up to the check in.

If an airline allows you to board without APP, they will be fined if you're refused entry.  A good airline will get pre-approval, a not so good won't be bothered or be willing.

 

 

   

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5 hours ago, Thai Visa Express said:

Have you ever noticed when departing Thailand for Australia the Dept of IMMI officers standing at the boarding gate that scrutinise everyones passport to make sure that they have a valid visa. They even run their eyes over Australian passports as well.

Not sure what your mean here? Thai immigration don't have access to Australian Visa information at the departure point  or clearance point, not to mention Australian visas are electricionic so not in the passport to check as such.

The most likely reason to look at stamps is for Thai immigration stamps and notes/bans etc or possible land border crossings or for compliance reasons. They have no interest if you have a visa to an overseas country.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Nightcall said:

Not sure what your mean here? Thai immigration don't have access to Australian Visa information at the departure point  or clearance point, not to mention Australian visas are electricionic so not in the passport to check as such.

The most likely reason to look at stamps is for Thai immigration stamps and notes/bans etc or possible land border crossings or for compliance reasons. They have no interest if you have a visa to an overseas country.

 

 

I think what he means, and which I have seen many times before not just in Bangkok but also Kuala Lumpur, is when you board your flight at the gate the Department of Immigration officials (Australian) that check passports.  


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Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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16 minutes ago, AFV said:

I think what he means, and which I have seen many times before not just in Bangkok but also Kuala Lumpur, is when you board your flight at the gate the Department of Immigration officials (Australian) that check passports.  

Oh OK, they are not checking passports for visas as such as they don't have access to visa information at the point, they are checking for other reasons. 

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On 6/6/2019 at 8:25 PM, AFV said:

An Australian citizen cannot be granted an Australian visa.

There would be no issue with an Australian citizen entering Australia without a passport. It wouldn't be as simple as walking through immigration, but a citizen does have a right to enter Australia.

The issue will be departing Thailand. I think you will have significant issue with the airlines. 

I am sure @Nightcall @Aussie_83 and @AussieDude will have much to say on this topic. 

AFV ia 100.00000% correct.

Immigration control determines 2 principal criteria;

  1. The traveller is who they say they are (Proof of ID)
  2. The traveller has the right to enter (valid Visa or is a Citizen)

Valid passports provide both ID and Entry right (well the passport number is linked to a visa) gone are the days of visa stickers and stamps.

So in your case;

  • On arrival there would be some red tape, as a the authenticity of the Citizenship certificate would need to be ascertained, thats a back office task, and not available to the front desk. A minor delay I would expect.
  • You challenge will be to prove the identity of your son, is the one named on the Citizenship Certificate.  This could be a serious hurdle, as any minor travelling with 'irregular' travel documents is normally sidelined for detailed review, in support of the Anti Child Trafficking Laws., and the Hague Convention for the Protection of Children.  Be sure you carry translated copies of his birth certificate, his Thai ID card (if over 7).  Proving the ID of children can be difficult.

But there are other obstacles.

Australia holds all inbound carriers (airlines) responsible for all and any costs of returning any traveller back to their home port, if they are refused entry into Australia. Not all countries have this rule, and Australia enforces it strictly.  Hence, all airlines flying travellers into Australia, go to great lengths to ensure that the traveller has a valid visa or is a citizen, before they will let them board.  As otherwise, they may have to bare the return flight costs, which the airlines find difficult to recover from the traveller. This situation worsens in 2020 with a proposed scheme to actually fine the carriers for dropping illegal entrants at an Australian port (I do think this will be hard to implement).

So, anyone with less than perfect travel documents (ie a valid Passport, and a valid Visa) will find it hard of not impossible to actually board a flight.  So the problem is not getting through Immigration it will be actually getting here. More and more the airlines refuse to allow boarding, rather than take the risk of a refused entry.  Most air ticket fine print reads that if you the passenger, can not satisfy the carrier that you have the right of entry at the destination, the carrier has the right to refuse to board you, at your loss.

 

 


 

 

Disclaimer:

Makes me sick, in the fact that I must include a disclaimer. All opinions, advice and comments expressed by me are of my own personal opinion, and not that of a Immigration Agent, Lawyer, or related professional. They are given in the spirit intended, as an independant contributor, to a public forum. No implied, or expressed guarantee or undertaking as to accuracy or relevance is given.

 

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