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Deckard

Por Kor 14

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Hi all,

Applying for a partner visa for my Thai wife and her daughter. Immigration has said the Port Kor 14 isn't enough that we need permission from the father of the child even though he has never had any involvement with child. My wife left him due to the fact he beat her very badly and she feared for her safety and that of her then unborn child. 

She still fears him to this day. 

I thought a Por Kor 14 gave or is sole custody? Isn't this right?

Can someone explain what a Por Kor 14 is and custody laws in Thailand.

I find it incredible that we have to get permission from a person who has no involvement in a child from them to come to Australia, It just leaves us open to extortion. 

What happens if we don't get the permission.

What happens to my wife's visa seeing they are linked? 

Any suggestions on what we can do? 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Deckard said:

Hi all,

Applying for a partner visa for my Thai wife and her daughter. Immigration has said the Port Kor 14 isn't enough that we need permission from the father of the child even though he has never had any involvement with child. My wife left him due to the fact he beat her very badly and she feared for her safety and that of her then unborn child. 

She still fears him to this day. 

I thought a Por Kor 14 gave or is sole custody? Isn't this right?

Can someone explain what a Por Kor 14 is and custody laws in Thailand.

I find it incredible that we have to get permission from a person who has no involvement in a child from them to come to Australia, It just leaves us open to extortion. 

What happens if we don't get the permission.

What happens to my wife's visa seeing they are linked? 

Any suggestions on what we can do? 

 

 

I can't really comment too much but from what I can see the Por Kor 14 seems to be primarily for passports. I'll leave this for the experts @Bridge @AFV and not sure who is might be across the Thai legal side but just from what I've seen and some quick research some notes below.

To be honest it's not much different to Australia, if you don't have formal legal custody then you can't remove the child from the country. It's just that normally in Australia legal custody is sorted early. Part of the intent is to prevent child trafficking and that sort of thing

There is a form for consent you can get the father to fill out and in a country like Thailand yes the other parent does use it as a chance to get some easy baht. Whatever you do to obtain it document every step. If you can't get in contact with the father you need to prove you made every effort. I believe it's form 1229 that you need. Also if you haven't yet have a read here: Attached Department of Home Affairs Child Migration Booklet

1128.pdf

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The Por Kor 14 simply provides that she has sole custody of the child. It doesn't provide that she has the sole decision to allow her child to migrate permanently to Australia. The Department of Home Affairs will not accept just the Por Kor 14. She will either require the written consent of the father or a court order allowing the child to migrate to Australia. A few years ago we did have success with just the Por Kor 14, in not dissimilar circumstances to your wife's, but we did provide police reports and evidence of an order that she had preventing her former partner from approaching both herself and her child due to concerns of their safety. This was accepted by the Department.

If we can be any assistance here, please do not hesitate to contact us directly: Thai Visa Express


Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

 

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On 1/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, Aussie_83 said:

I can't really comment too much but from what I can see the Por Kor 14 seems to be primarily for passports. I'll leave this for the experts @Bridge @AFV and not sure who is might be across the Thai legal side but just from what I've seen and some quick research some notes below.

To be honest it's not much different to Australia, if you don't have formal legal custody then you can't remove the child from the country. It's just that normally in Australia legal custody is sorted early. Part of the intent is to prevent child trafficking and that sort of thing

There is a form for consent you can get the father to fill out and in a country like Thailand yes the other parent does use it as a chance to get some easy baht. Whatever you do to obtain it document every step. If you can't get in contact with the father you need to prove you made every effort. I believe it's form 1229 that you need. Also if you haven't yet have a read here: Attached Department of Home Affairs Child Migration Booklet

1128.pdf 422.18 kB · 0 downloads

Seems these experts don't know the answer. Thats the problem with self appointed agents, anyone can claim they are an agent, doesn't mean anything really.

Maybe I should be come an agent. 

@Deckard you should send a message to board members @AussieDude or @Nightcall they don't seem to post anymore, but seem to know a lot about Thai Law. 

I don't know much about Por Kor, except they are used for passport applications for some minors in Thailand. 

If the child application is part of the mother's partner visa application I believe all applicants are tried together and must be all approved or all applicants will be refused. 

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1 hour ago, SammyJ said:

With your attitude i doubt you would get much business....

You be surprised, people like a bit of attitude when going to someone for help. They know where they stand instead of someone who is just fake and just nice to there face to get there business. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Electric Sheep said:

 

@Deckard you should send a message to board members @AussieDude or @Nightcall they don't seem to post anymore, but seem to know a lot about Thai Law.

If the child application is part of the mother's partner visa application I believe all applicants are tried together and must be all approved or all applicants will be refused. 

From what I've been able to find the partner visa isn't quite like that. But again would need confirmation, but with partner visas it can be that the parent can get approval but the child can't. 

I know many like the skilled visas are structured so one fail all fail. So partner visa can be different in that it's not the whole family unit applying. 

Hard to find much info on it.

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These are the two main legal provisions you must meet to bring the child to Australia:

 

4017 - The Minister is satisfied of 1 of the following:

(a)  the law of the applicant’s home country permits the removal of the applicant;

(b)  each person who can lawfully determine where the applicant is to live consents to the grant of the visa;

(c)  the grant of the visa would be consistent with any Australian child order in force in relation to the applicant.

 

4018  - The Minister is satisfied that there is no compelling reason to believe that the grant of the visa would not be in the best interests of the applicant.

 

You should be prepared to get a Court order, but you could potentially argue you satisfy 4017(a) and 4018 with some further supporting documents.

 

Regards


David Stephens

LLB LLM, Registered Migration Agent 9795466

Australasian Immigration Services Pty Ltd

 

Please note that this posting is of a general nature only. It does not constitute legal or migration advice and may not apply to your particular circumstances.

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On 1/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, Aussie_83 said:

I can't really comment too much but from what I can see the Por Kor 14 seems to be primarily for passports. I'll leave this for the experts @Bridge @AFV and not sure who is might be across the Thai legal side but just from what I've seen and some quick research some notes below.

To be honest it's not much different to Australia, if you don't have formal legal custody then you can't remove the child from the country. It's just that normally in Australia legal custody is sorted early. Part of the intent is to prevent child trafficking and that sort of thing

There is a form for consent you can get the father to fill out and in a country like Thailand yes the other parent does use it as a chance to get some easy baht. Whatever you do to obtain it document every step. If you can't get in contact with the father you need to prove you made every effort. I believe it's form 1229 that you need. Also if you haven't yet have a read here: Attached Department of Home Affairs Child Migration Booklet

1128.pdf 422.18 kB · 0 downloads

I think a Por Kor 14 is legal custody or that's what I have been told as she wasn't married to him legally. Are you saying it's not.

Immigration sent the 1229 form and asked it be completed. 

What I want to know is what happens if we don't get the form signed. 

We know where the father lives as it's only about 1km away from my wife's family home. My wife has spoken to his brother who she still gets along with well, who said that he won't sign it as he hates her that she left and caused him to lose face in the village. 

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On 1/24/2020 at 12:22 PM, Thai Visa Express said:

The Por Kor 14 simply provides that she has sole custody of the child. It doesn't provide that she has the sole decision to allow her child to migrate permanently to Australia. The Department of Home Affairs will not accept just the Por Kor 14. She will either require the written consent of the father or a court order allowing the child to migrate to Australia. A few years ago we did have success with just the Por Kor 14, in not dissimilar circumstances to your wife's, but we did provide police reports and evidence of an order that she had preventing her former partner from approaching both herself and her child due to concerns of their safety. This was accepted by the Department.

If we can be any assistance here, please do not hesitate to contact us directly: Thai Visa Express

Have you had much experience with court orders. 

We spoke with a Thai lawyer and they said a court won't issue an order as the mother under Thai law already has full guardianship of the child and they won't issue an order for something that by law the mother already has.

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:02 AM, Electric Sheep said:

Seems these experts don't know the answer. Thats the problem with self appointed agents, anyone can claim they are an agent, doesn't mean anything really.

Maybe I should be come an agent. 

@Deckard you should send a message to board members @AussieDude or @Nightcall they don't seem to post anymore, but seem to know a lot about Thai Law. 

I don't know much about Por Kor, except they are used for passport applications for some minors in Thailand. 

If the child application is part of the mother's partner visa application I believe all applicants are tried together and must be all approved or all applicants will be refused. 

Thanks I will send them a message.

The Visas being tired together is a big concern, maybe it's best to withdraw the child and apply on there own. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 4:22 PM, Aussie_83 said:

From what I've been able to find the partner visa isn't quite like that. But again would need confirmation, but with partner visas it can be that the parent can get approval but the child can't. 

I know many like the skilled visas are structured so one fail all fail. So partner visa can be different in that it's not the whole family unit applying. 

Hard to find much info on it.

Immigration on the phone said they were tired together. Do you have any reference or websites that show this isn't the case. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 5:02 PM, David Stephens said:

These are the two main legal provisions you must meet to bring the child to Australia:

 

4017 - The Minister is satisfied of 1 of the following:

 

(a)  the law of the applicant’s home country permits the removal of the applicant;

 

(b)  each person who can lawfully determine where the applicant is to live consents to the grant of the visa;

 

(c)  the grant of the visa would be consistent with any Australian child order in force in relation to the applicant.

 

 

 

4018  - The Minister is satisfied that there is no compelling reason to believe that the grant of the visa would not be in the best interests of the applicant.

 

 

You should be prepared to get a Court order, but you could potentially argue you satisfy 4017(a) and 4018 with some further supporting documents.

 

Regards

Thanks for the information, do you have any experience with getting court orders?

What type of supporting documents would you recommend? 

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 4:22 PM, Aussie_83 said:

From what I've been able to find the partner visa isn't quite like that. But again would need confirmation, but with partner visas it can be that the parent can get approval but the child can't.

I think your wrong here, but what information have you found to show this. 

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2 hours ago, Electric Sheep said:

I think your wrong here, but what information have you found to show this. 

To be honest it's mainly on the memory of an applicants post. They got a refusal initially for to they couldn't get a court order or form 1229 done so they got the parents visa sorted with the child's refusal and then down the track applied for the child after.

I did try and find some sort of reference but for something so specific and unusual it's damn hard to find.

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15 hours ago, Aussie_83 said:

To be honest it's mainly on the memory of an applicants post. They got a refusal initially for to they couldn't get a court order or form 1229 done so they got the parents visa sorted with the child's refusal and then down the track applied for the child after.

I did try and find some sort of reference but for something so specific and unusual it's damn hard to find.

Just asking as I would be interested to know as a far as I know its linked.  

I the case you remember did they withdraw the application or was it refused.

 

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On 1/28/2020 at 12:09 AM, Aussie_83 said:

Would love to say common sense but hey it's the government we are talking about!

I have nothing to back up my view that I can recall off hand, remember reading it somewhere, so was interested to see. I rely on the fact that I have pissed off @AFV enough that he is itching to prove wrong so would jump at the chance to say I was wrong as per the regulation Ih8u of the migration act. 

That hasn't happened yet 😄😄😄😄

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